Curse

Stealthc · Apr 05, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Yet more paragon nerfs. He's already worthless in PvE. I really regret making one, especially as my primary for Elona.

The Soul Reaping change is going to devastate my necro (Rt/N boon of creation/explosive growth/animate minions spamming) build. I wonder if it will still be viable.

Somehow I think if you're a Rt/N the soul reaping change won't affect you in any way...

Father of Mir · Apr 05, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Mmm .. time to get my assassin signet spiker out the closet for some Cirque du AB!

SotiCoto · Apr 05, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

same with the change to necros. most of the changes are positive, with a few cosmetic nerfs to make some spells less retardedly powerful. the change to soul reaping isn't really a big deal i believe. it is still a very effective passive energy management. take a look at the closest thing to a hex necro: an illusion hex mesmer. they do not have passive energy management, yet they still perform just as well.

The skills nerfed were not retardedly powerful: They were subsidiary synergy skills only useful when put together with other skills... Since they only managed "useful" when put together, and now take enough time and energy to put on that the time and energy would be better spent on other (admittedly less functionally effective) skills... their worth has greatly diminished. Price of Failure was only worth using WITH Reckless Haste... and now the combination both takes longer to put on AND costs more... and likewise it takes 15 energy to put down Reckless Haste itself... which is 15 energy I might as well spend in a pinch on another cast of Insidious Parasite or Spiteful Spirit (often I made use of it when I only had 10 energy available... which might amaze some people given how broken they THINK Soul Reaping was).

And Illusion Hex?
I'd compare more closely to a Domination Hexer... I don't even think of Illusion Magic as being for hexing purposes anyway... [I use it for double-bluff spells like Illusion of Haste and Illusion of Weakness and Illusionary Weaponry]. *Shrugs*

Quote:

everyone should just take a step back and think of the changes in a new perspective. will the changes to the mesmer domination hexes REALLY affect the way they are currently used? no. will the changes to the necro hexes and soul reaping REALLY absolutely demolish them off the face of the earth? no. will the "only affect party members" change to paragon shouts REALLY affect anything at all? no. all in all, this update doesn't really destroy anything, and makes for a few interesting new ideas.

They will affect the effectiveness... if not the precise methods used. Sometimes a lot of fine-tuning is required to get perfectly used to fluently using a build. Nerfs like this completely mess up that fine-tuning. If I'm used to a skill costing ten energy then something is going to seem wrong in my head when my finger instinctively goes for the button when I have 10 energy to spend on it and it claims I haven't got enough. It can throw a person off-track completely. It takes time to get used to these things... and implies a complete waste of time in ever getting used to the old way before.

And if nobody complained... nothing good would ever get done... Consider that?

mqstout · Apr 05, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthc

Somehow I think if you're a Rt/N the soul reaping change won't affect you in any way...

Indeed, it won't.

Alleji · Apr 05, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

The Soul Reaping change is going to devastate my necro (Rt/N boon of creation/explosive growth/animate minions spamming) build. I wonder if it will still be viable.

OMG ROFL

This is gotta be the funniest thing I've ever read.

Arch · Apr 05, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

The problem with Necro in PvP isnt that Soul Reaping is too powerful, its that Icy Veins spike is slightly powerful, nerfing the whole soul reaping category isnt going to help anyone who does Heroes Ascent/GvG, the main catalyst for the energy in these necro based teams is their spirit spammer, if your too stupid to target them, you need better tactics to deal with these types of teams.

clawofcrimson · Apr 05, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Yet more paragon nerfs. He's already worthless in PvE. I really regret making one, especially as my primary for Elona.

The Soul Reaping change is going to devastate my necro (Rt/N boon of creation/explosive growth/animate minions spamming) build. I wonder if it will still be viable.

"the sadest words in tongue or pen, are the words it might have been".....

the problems with pve is that if you make a character build him up and buy stuff for him.... you cannot simply delete him and create a new one as in pvp.

NeHoMaR · Apr 05, 2007, 03:04 PM // 15:04

I am hoping WHEN this game will be finally BALANCED for the last time! It's possible now because the no more new professions thing.

Please, ArenaNet, think very deeply about the skills you are adding in GW:EN, at least try to don't unbalance game; instead think in skills that will help to balance this game forever!

Imagine a day when developers stop to balance skills, not for non supporting game anymore but because is 100% balanced; I will be happy that day. And YES, it's possible now!

antialias02 · Apr 05, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

I am hoping WHEN this game will be finally BALANCED for the last time! It's possible now because the no more new professions thing.

Please, ArenaNet, think very deeply about the skills you are adding in GW:EN, at least try to don't unbalance game; instead think in skills that will help to balance this game forever!

Imagine a day when developers stop to balance skills, not for non supporting game anymore but because is 100% balanced; I will be happy that day. And YES, it's possible now!

I am betting on "never." The Devs have announced new skills, despite no new professions.

Furthermore, the devs have also admitted to using skill changes as a way of freshening up the meta - buffing underused skills and maybe tweaking overused ones.

There will never be 100% balance in Guild Wars, but the level of attention brought to it is far and beyond better than any other competitive (or even cooperative) game on the market.

I'm on the side that suggests Necros were way too overpowered in PvE, and so the soul reaping nerf was just as much for them as it was for the PvP necros. Whine if you want. If you play a Necro, try rolling a Mesmer for a little perspective on PvE life.

romeus petrus · Apr 05, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

The nerf to SR is very dissappointing, reducing the energy cost of some minions will not make it up, most experienced necros don't even play MM. If anet is worried about SR being overpowered in PvP, they should limit the SR changes to PvP. For most of us necros who are mainly PvEers, these changes are simply unfair and makes alot of builds absolete, and closes down a lot of areas to necros.

I hope this is just temporary and anet would restore SR to the way it was. After all SR is the primary attribute for necros.

yesitsrob · Apr 05, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch

The problem with Necro in PvP isnt that Soul Reaping is too powerful, its that Icy Veins spike is slightly powerful, nerfing the whole soul reaping category isnt going to help anyone who does Heroes Ascent/GvG, the main catalyst for the energy in these necro based teams is their spirit spammer, if your too stupid to target them, you need better tactics to deal with these types of teams.

You couldn't be more wrong, and I don't really know why I am wasting my time on this. But there is more than just Icy Veins in soul reaping. SB/RI is common, and has allowed some terrible terrible teams to get to top 10 on the ladder when normally they wouldn't break 300. These SBRI teams have a total of 5 people with spirits spammer, one of which does nothing but spam spirits (4 N/Rts, 1 R/W)

And along with weapon spells, aegis, evasion, shutting the spirit spammers down (especially 5 of them) is significantly easier said than done.

Theus · Apr 05, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

Furthermore, the devs have also admitted to using skill changes as a way of freshening up the meta - buffing underused skills and maybe tweaking overused ones.

Thats a nice load of horse shit.

When was the last time Anet buffed an under used Mesmer skill thats actually useful?

How did they fix the metagame for mesmers this update?By nerfing actually useful skills and giving us what?Keystone Signet and Signet of Clumsiness.Wow.What a broken combo.

It just seems that with every update Mesmers constantly get the shit end of the stick.

De Maximoff · Apr 05, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Theus said it perfectly. I could not agree with you more. It's nice to see that there are others that see the Mesmer constantly getting the shaft.

SotiCoto · Apr 05, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I'm forced to agree....

When I first started I wasn't sure whether I wanted to begin with an Assassin or Mesmer. Since getting used to the game with my Assassin, I still haven't made a Mesmer and I have representatives of almost every other class.
Mesmers have just gone downhill... all the way down... at least as primary. Ironically though I make a lot of my characters Mesmer-secondary for particular skills on a regular basis. The elemental Mantras on the Inspiration line get a lot of use.... as do the various interrupts for my heroes.

Next thing we know it'll be those getting the pummelling treatment.

Arkantos · Apr 05, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

How did they fix the metagame for mesmers this update?By nerfing actually useful skills and giving us what?Keystone Signet and Signet of Clumsiness.Wow.What a broken combo.

It's a devestating combo really.

Siddious · Apr 05, 2007, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Fear the mighty power of SIGNET OF CLUMINESS! Watch out SF eles, you're going to get owned.

Also Mesmers always get the crap end of the stick. Deal with it.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Apr 05, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

I don't get why you people complain about mesmers 'being nerfed' so much.

You're not telling me that you're actually using diversion in PvE and 2(!!) extra seconds recharge isn't gonna make it worthless...

Diversion is one of the best skills in the game, as spammable as before makes it really strong even in the hands of a bad player.

People would just spam it on recharge without thinking about it/timing it.

About the soul reaping nerf.. don't form your opinion about it until you've 'seen it in action'

PvE is so easy that you could pretty much use a bar of 8 completely random skills and still succeed.

Mylon · Apr 05, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

So, for the most part, monks got a nerf (Zealous Benediction was the obvious choice, yes, but it was _required_ to handle the damage inflation), mesmers got a nerf (they have a hard enough time shutting people down as it is, and it's not like they even do damage while at work - Might as well be an interrupt ranger and shut down non-spell skills without having to rely on expensive 10 energy spells too ), and then some skills get damage buffs.

So monks, despite the slight nerf to their best skill, are still probably the required class, mesmers are still gimped, and combat is still over in a flash.

dargon · Apr 05, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Given that the SR change isn't actually in play yet, can we kindly hold off bitching about it till we actually know how it's going to work?
As a side note it doesn't say you only get energy every 5 seconds, it says now only provides Energy at a MAXIMUM rate of once every 5 seconds (emphasis mine). Personally, I take that to mean all other times you get energy like a spirit died, half the normal amount, NOT ZERO.

Nadia Roark · Apr 05, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

Ergh. Untouched means that they didnt even do anything to it.

You're clearly missing the point.

Let me break it down for you. Old RaO wasn't terrifically more powerful than new RaO. The reason it was imba was because it could be chained; and in the course of doing so the user had a permanent speed boost and attack increase. Add to this that it's a SKILL (not a stance!) that can't be removed and you have one ridiculously overpowered melee elite.

Now lets look at New RaO. With EW down it has the exact same functionality; and even without EW you can keep it up with high Beast and sparing use of Crushing Blow. I'll consider it "touched" when its functionality is actually altered. The only reason people are considering it "nerfed" is because most of them seem to think that you have to run 12 hammer (you don't) and they drop points out of Beast to accomplish this. High Beast also allows your pet to deal more damage in combat, which clearly exacerbates the situation.

Same thing with SP. For the record, I think SP/BoA is utter shit (it's not imba and never was--it only kills against crap monks) and didn't really need a nerf to begin with, but they did more or less the same thing to it as they did to RaO. Clearly, an attempt was made to alter the functionality of the skill, but no meaningful change was actually acheived.

Hence, untouched.